#8: Would We Still Buy It? Drilling into a Building and Pest Inspection Report

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[00:00:35] Hello Melbourne! I'm Lisa Parker and together with Cate we are bringing you a dose of our property market in detail. I'm Cate Bakos, Lisa and I are both buyer's agents who work on opposite sides of the Melbourne market and we've clocked up over 40 years between us in the property industry. Join us each fortnight to hear some exciting stories from our coalface, market trends and some juicy auction updates. This collaboration has been a long time coming, we hope you enjoy.

[00:01:09] Hello Melbourne! It's so good to be back in the studio. Welcome to the Melbourne Property Hour. Today, Lisa and I are chatting about something that affects most home buyers, well anyone who dares to get a building inspection, which in our world is pretty much everyone. Isn't that right, Lisa? Mm-hmm. There's a few exceptions we might talk about, but pretty much 98%, 99% of clients will all get a building and pest.

[00:01:33] Yeah, I feel exactly the same. So today we're chatting about the common issues that come up in the building and pest inspections. And hopefully we can unravel some of those, put them into perspective, add some context and give you all something to think about next time you're going through your building and pest inspection. Yeah, I think it's a pretty big topic because it can really freak people out when they're not used to seeing these reports.

[00:01:55] And depending on how good your report is and how thorough your building and person is that you've hired will depend on what you get back in that report. And I've seen reports that are about four pages long with, you know, six ticks on it and that's it. And I've seen the opposite end of the scale, which is 128 pages full of reporting. And it can be quite overwhelming for buyers if they've never seen a decent building and pest report in their life.

[00:02:22] And so hopefully today we can kind of calm the nerves a little bit by talking about the stuff that comes up all the time. But let's, I guess, start with why we get a building and pest because it's not, there's not only just one reason. Yeah, so true. You know, a lot of people think that it's determinant on whether you're buying or not buying the property. And sometimes it is black and white, but generally speaking, it's to get a good idea about this property. So where does pricing sit?

[00:02:51] How much stuff do we actually need to be doing with this house that we might not have been able to recognize just from our inspection? What sort of immediate things does the client need to do? And of course, when you've got a first home buyer, they've got their capital, which is their deposit, and then they're borrowing the rest. And so you can't borrow for all of these repairs and maintenance items when it's your first property. So that will really determine, you know, how much they can leverage and whether it's viable or not. And then there's things like what sort of future works could you do?

[00:03:21] And does it deserve to have an immediate renovation or could it be a two-step renovation? There's just so many things that a building inspection will give you that's beyond just whether you buy it or don't buy it. And we'll also talk about discounting. Hmm. Because when somebody buys a home that they're intending to improve or do some renovations on, they've got their budget.

[00:03:43] But if the building and pest report all of a sudden reveals some issues that don't necessarily add value to fix but need to be fixed, say, for example, the roof needs to be replaced and that's a $50,000 or $60,000 roof replacement, there goes half your renovation budget. So it's quite an important document and process. But building and pest inspectors, there's a lot that they can do and there's some things that they can't do. And access is a big part of that.

[00:04:13] And we all hope that we hire a building and pest inspector who actually strives to gain access because I'm aware that some inspectors will walk into a house, spend 15 minutes in it and walk out again. Now, I know you and I are quite similar in terms of the types of building and pest inspectors we like to work with. And we prefer to work with the ones that are extremely thorough, which means they're spending anywhere between an hour to an hour and a half in a property.

[00:04:38] And they're accessing the subfloor as well as the roof and they're getting on top of the roof and getting on top of any structure they can. But sometimes it's not always possible to gain access to the subfloor. And then that becomes a little bit tricky because they can't report on absolutely everything. And then there are a few other things that they aren't licensed to do and can't comment on. And I think it's important for people to understand what those limitations are so they have realistic expectations.

[00:05:09] Cate, do you want to touch on some of the things that a building and pest person can't do? Yeah, you nailed it. Firstly, when you talked about subfloor access, I mean, if you've got an old house that has a decent subfloor, but there's no access, there's no plinth boards on the side of the house that can be pulled apart or there's no little manhole that you can crawl down into. It means that you've got to pull up floorboards. Now, no vendor is going to be okay with an invasive inspection like that. And the same goes for manholes into the ceiling space.

[00:05:37] If it's locked or if there isn't one, they can't get up there. So they're just a couple of the things that the licensed element that you mentioned is really important to note because when you get a building inspection report, particularly from a really thorough building inspector, they will have quite a lot of disclaimers at the front of the report. And I have clients saying, oh, you know, it's full of disclaimers. Well, it does have to be because they've got insurance that they're bound by. So they've got to make it really clear what they're not allowed to comment on.

[00:06:06] And those things are plumbing and electrical. They can't comment on electrical other than to say something like, I can see the switchboard's been updated. But, you know, the light switches are the old Baker light switches. Or there's a couple of things that I tested that were crackling. You need to talk to an electrician. So they'll often be able to give you that recommendation. And when a building inspector rings, man, I'm sure you're the same. They say, Kate, there's just something about this one with the plumbing.

[00:06:34] I really recommend you take it a step further and get a plumber through. They have their spidey sensors going off and they know what they're talking about in as much as we need to move on to the next specialist. But they can't go testing plumbing. They're not qualified. And they won't be covered in their report if they try. So, Cate, when we talk about the subfloor, it makes me really nervous when an inspector can't access the subfloor. But there are some homes that it's just not possible. And so we expect it.

[00:07:03] Do you get nervous when somebody can't access the subfloor or into the ceiling? I do. And I know we've chatted about this in the past. I want to see part of the subfloor. So whether it's peering through the plinth boards with a sharp little torch or being able to open an external manhole and just see for myself, you know, whether there's brick piers or concrete stumps or timber stumps.

[00:07:26] If I can't see it, I'm always thinking, oh, I don't know about this one because the building inspector won't be able to get down there and see it as well. And the same goes for manhole access. You know, if the roof manhole is locked, if that vendor's not willing to unlock it, I'm not so excited about getting the building inspection done. It's almost like there's been occasions where I've had the thought process as to whether or not the vendor's intentionally locked us out of a space. And so that makes me really nervous.

[00:07:56] Same as when you go into a property and there's candles everywhere and there's the smelly wicks that are everywhere. And you're like, hmm, what smell are you trying to hide in here? Yeah, exactly. I know. And vendors can easily be deceptive. If I see a big rug on a floor and I pull it back and I can see damaged floorboards, my trust with that vendor's broken.

[00:08:17] I've had that before, actually, where a rug has been placed over some rotted out flooring and actually nearly fell through the floor. So, yeah, so that was a really great lesson for me. And when I've seen rugs placed, particularly if they're placed in an unusual spot, I always lift them up and move them just to see what's underneath there. And sometimes they use images on the wall, like paintings and stuff on the wall to cover stuff up on the wall as well.

[00:08:45] So, if my spidey sensors go off, I move it. We had one incident talking about building and pests where there was a couch on the other side. There was an en suite and on the other side of the en suite was a living room and there was a couch along that wall. And I saw some evidence of some cracking in the shower. And so, I really wanted to see whether or not the waterproofing had been compromised, which meant that we needed to get a moisture meter on the back of that wall.

[00:09:10] Now, the building and pest inspectors are not supposed to move anything to gain access to spots. And so, we got ahead of that and we asked the vendors to move the couch before the building and pest inspector arrived. And I also was very clear with the agent, if that's not moved, can you please move it? And if you don't move it, the building and pest inspection is not going ahead and we won't be offering on this property.

[00:09:33] I was really stern with them because sometimes people can intentionally cover things up and we want to try to get ahead of that wherever possible and make sure that our building and pest inspectors have got access to everywhere they need to. It is interesting, isn't it? Because we can probably get away with a little bit more than they can when it comes to moving furniture. I don't hesitate. If I need to get behind something, I'll gently move it.

[00:09:57] I'll carry a moisture meter for those moments where I think, yeah, I want to know what's going on behind this laundry or behind this shower. And sometimes that can save me the building inspection altogether. I just think, no, this is all too messy. I know it's going to be expensive. Let's just leave it. Is there anything else a building and pest inspector can't tell us? Yeah, some of them won't scope works. They won't quote.

[00:10:21] They won't tell you what you could do for your renovation or whether you can move the load bearing wall. We'll get some that either don't feel qualified enough to do it or they're nervous enough about their level of insurance. The building inspectors that we use, and I know that you're the same, you want someone who's willing to have that off-the-record conversation with you,

[00:10:42] not just put everything in the report, but a builder that can be really honest with you and flag when they've got a spidey sense that's just sounding a bit too weird to put in a report. But the same goes for quoting and talking about what could work with the renovation or whether load bearing walls would be easy to move or what it could cost. Some of them just won't do it.

[00:11:04] So if that's what you need, you really need to scope out a building inspector who is also not just a qualified builder, but someone who's been an active builder, not just an inspector, because they're usually happier and more relaxed to have a chat with you about what can be done. Yeah, you touched on something really interesting there, which is the on-record conversations compared to the off-record conversations. And no doubt you probably have just as many off-record conversations with your building and pest inspectors as we do.

[00:11:34] So when we get a building and pest, if we've got a really decent one, the reports are very robust. They're quite lengthy. As you said, they're filled with a lot of disclaimers. And I'm pretty sure with their systems, when they tick a certain box that says that something is present at the property, there's some templated responses that are automatically inserted into the reports. And it can kind of sound a little bit scary sometimes because they might say, you need a qualified carpenter to do this, when in reality, it's a handyman job.

[00:12:04] Now, you and I deal with this all the time. We have to break it down with clients. In fact, I was on the phone for an hour with a client last night going through line by line the building and pest and alleviating their concerns because they were thinking they needed to crash the deal. When in reality, every item in that report are items that we see every single day. So let's break down for our listeners the stuff that we see every single day and just give them some context of what they need to freak out about and what they don't need to worry about.

[00:12:33] Oh, I love this. We often get, especially with period houses, a mention of unlevel flooring. Now, there's certain tolerances that builders will work to. And it also depends, you know, how old is the house? Has it been re-stumped? Are we dealing with old fireplaces? Because there are some floors you'll never get 100% right. But if it's out by a certain amount, they will certainly be ringing some alarm bells. So re-stumping, does it mean that it's going to cost an absolute bomb?

[00:13:02] Not always. And interestingly, re-stumping can cost about $15,000 to $20,000, depending on the size of the house. But sometimes the significant spend is the mess that you have to tidy up after the re-stumping is done. Because you can have cracked walls, tiles break, fall off the wall. You've then got to patch, plaster, paint, re-tile. That stuff can get expensive. But re-stumping doesn't necessarily mean all of the house.

[00:13:29] Sometimes it's just chocking, which is putting a little wedge between the stump and the bearer. Other times, you know, it's just a localized area. It might be two or three stumps. And so getting that information is really important. And it's not something that makes me panic immediately. But also, you and I are trained with all of this. I know that when I walk into a house, I can pick a slight unlevel. I'm trained to do that. And you can see where it is.

[00:13:55] If it's in an old bedroom and it's towards where the fireplace is, well, that's where you expect it to feel most unlevel. But if it's a concrete slab and it's unlevel, different story. I'll be feeling particularly anxious about the whole situation. What about you? Yeah, I was actually going to say exactly the same thing. That there's a distinction between unlevel flooring when it comes to stumps compared to unlevel flooring when it comes to concrete slabs. And we'll touch on that a little bit later. And a concrete slab really frightens me.

[00:14:24] And we'll go into more detail about that. Some of the other things that we see quite often with homes, whether they're brick homes or whether they're period homes that tend to be weatherboard, is timber rot. Timber rot is probably one of the most invasive things in a property. And it all stems from leaking water that's coming from somewhere. And our number one job, I believe, and a priority for our clients is to address any leaking water that's coming from anywhere.

[00:14:55] Drains, downpipes, water runoff, cracks in the tiles in the shower, for example. Because when we get into a situation where we're getting timber rot, it means the timber is holding water. And when a timber is holding water, it is an attractant for termites. And nobody wants to have termites in their property. And so we always say to rectify those things.

[00:15:17] And also the rectification for those items is often a lot less than if you were to let it deteriorate to a point where you need to replace the whole piece of timber, for example, or the whole item. And so it's spending a little bit of money up front now rather than thousands of dollars down the track when you've let something rot to a point where it needs full replacement. I couldn't have said it better. I say to clients often, water is our nemesis. And the same goes for weatherboards.

[00:15:46] If they, you know, a really good paint system should last you for at least 12 years if it's done properly externally. You've got your undercoat and you've got your top coats. And when you start to see paint flaking and failing and cracking, that's your early warning sign to, you know, sort of get onto it. Once you've had a few winters and the rain is coming in sideways and it's getting into those little cracks, you'll start to see the timber holding water and softening. And then you get your timber rot in your weatherboards. And all is not lost when that's the case.

[00:16:16] They're easy enough to replace. In fact, I'm always pleasantly surprised when I get a quote for replacing weatherboards. But you don't want to let it get to that situation. Side note, I heard somebody crash a deal over the replacement of about six weatherboards for an outhouse building. Oh, no. You could have onsold it to me. What a shine. Six weatherboards. You've actually done that.

[00:16:39] You and I have actually, a client of mine freaked out and declined a property in Coburg, which you actually picked up after me. I think I had it under contract and they wanted to get out of it. We were in the middle of negotiations. You picked it up after me. And then funny enough, I didn't end up buying for that client, but that client became your client afterwards. It was so funny how that happened. It's never a nice feeling though when you're on a great property and your client lets it go.

[00:17:08] I was happy you bought it though. It was a great little property. There's one in Coburg in a great street and it was an original sort of 680 or 700 square meter block that had been chopped in half. And it was the original front bungalow. It was like 10 years ago. Anyway, we digress. Now, another really common issue that everybody should expect is sealant issues.

[00:17:32] Now, sealant is a little gooey substance that we find around the bottom of tiles, around the bottom of showers, around basins. And it is actually a really important part of stopping water from getting into places that it shouldn't get into. And we fully expect that when we buy a property for a client that we're sending a handyman in.

[00:17:57] We're paying him $150 and he's resealing the entire house as in all of every single wet area. And that's a preventative. It's $150 to stop water from seeping in behind tiles and under basins where the water's not supposed to be, where it's going to end up rotting out timber. And if somebody's particularly handy, they can even do it themselves. And I think you were mentioning the price. What's the price of some sealant, Kate?

[00:18:27] Oh, I can get a corking gun and a tube of silicon for under $12 of Bunnings. And it's actually a job I really like doing. I'm there with my Padapop stick and I can do a really neat bead. I'm not good at it. I've tried. I'm not good at it. Why don't you pay $150? Get the whole house done. Oh, and you know what? I recently did a full internal renovation with new floors, new skirting boards, the works.

[00:18:52] And we had a person lined up who only does sealant around the flooring. That's his job. He only does sealant. And they do an absolutely spectacular job. Anyway, he let us down. We had to get somebody else in. And we said to him, are you sure you can do this? Like you can do a really good job of this. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, he couldn't and he shouldn't have done the job. It was a brand new renovation. It was a high level renovation and he did not do a perfect job. So stay away. If you're like me, stay away from it.

[00:19:20] If you're like Kate and you can nail it, then go knock yourself out. The secret's all in the Padapop stick. Just saying. That's my tip. I haven't tried it. I will try it next time. Let's talk about roof tiles. That comes up a lot as well. When they say that they need to be repointed, you know, we're talking about remortering. And the question for the builder is how urgent is this job? You know, how quickly do I need to do it? Because if the builder says, oh, yeah, no, you should get another five years out of it.

[00:19:50] You've missed a really important queue. In five years time, you've got equity. You've got savings, whatever. You have to do it now, straight up. Yeah, it might be a few thousand dollars. It could even be 10,000 if it's a big house. But it's not worth panicking over until you've got that information. Yeah. And also there's the re-bedding as well. So there's a bit of a difference. You want to catch it while you're only needing to re-point rather than actually re-bed as well. And it's a cheaper job for you.

[00:20:17] We often talk to clients about, you know, when houses reach 25 to 30 years of age, if it's a cement tile roof, we're talking to our clients about a full roof restoration. That might sound scary, but it's actually not. You can get some providers who will do a full roof restoration for about $4,500. And depending on the size of the house, it might be up to $8,000 or $9,000.

[00:20:42] And that usually includes replacing any cracked tiles, repointing the ridge capping, and also doing three coats of new paint on top of the tiles. And that gives your tiles and your roof at least another 10 years of life in them, but potentially more like 15 or 20 years before that needs to get touched again. So I love it when we're buying houses where that's already been done,

[00:21:07] because I think it's one of the best upgrades for a house. Because if we need to replace a roof, we're looking at $30,000 to $50,000, depending on the size. And how good do they look when they're repainted? They look fantastic. It's preventative, but it's also cosmetic, and it does enhance the value of a property. I get super excited when I see them already done. Yes. And you were talking before about some of those things that are perceived non-value adds that can, you know, stack up.

[00:21:35] And you mentioned a new roof or it could be, you know, full rewiring of the house. A buyer doesn't walk through a property and go, wow, it's been rewired. It's worth an extra, you know, $15,000. They just don't do it. So it's really good to know whether you're looking at an invisible thing or a very visible thing. We'd love to hear how some of our tips are helping you on your property journey.

[00:22:01] If you'd like to get in touch with us, jump onto our website, themelbournepropertyhour.com.au. You can either leave us a written message or you can record it as a message. Let us know what you'd like to hear more of and tell us a little bit about some of your successes. If you're enjoying the show, please tell your friends and click the follow button on your preferred podcast platform. What else are common things that come up in these reports?

[00:22:30] We read these every single week, Kate. We almost be building infest inspectors at this point. Well, my favourite is conditions that are conducive to termite infestation. And people can get really freaked out. And what I have to say to clients, and I never, ever dust this stuff, you know, under the carpet. It's really important to be on it when you've got a house that's high risk. But you have to put it in perspective. A building inspection will never, ever say low risk. Ever. I've never seen one.

[00:22:58] You could get a brand new house in a dust bowl and they will say medium or moderate risk. That's the lowest risk rating they apply for a pest inspection. Have you ever seen one that's underneath moderate? No, it's actually a really good point. I had this conversation with a client last night, actually, about conducive and what that means. And it sounds scary when you're not used to it. But when we see it in every single report, we're used to it. And it's a non-event. If it's conducive, it's a non-event.

[00:23:27] We fix the items that are conducive. And we've already touched on what they usually are. They're usually involving water. Water sitting up against the house. Water leaking. Water getting into wood. That's what makes it conducive. Foliage up against the house. The house not being able to breathe properly. They're all the things that make it conducive. And a good building and pest inspector, when they go through the property, will not only highlight the current issues with the property,

[00:23:53] but they'll also highlight things that you can do to get longevity out of your property and avoid things like termites or minimize the risk of termites by just implementing the things that they're putting into, the recommendations they're putting into the building and pest report. I was always really surprised when the builders would talk me through, in my early days, you know, they'd talk me through how to remove or to limit some of those risks. And like you said, you know, minimize it completely.

[00:24:21] Stuff like you've got, you know, those little cords that come out of the hot water service and they sort of drip hot water. You know, drip, drip, drip. Over a period of time, you've got this little wet area beside the house. We'll just put a pot plant there. Literally, like, route it into a pot plant. And move the garden beds away from the side of the house so that the house can breathe. Things like, you know, enhanced subfloor ventilation might be just some more gaps on the side of the house or putting a little solar operated fan down there, which sounds really technical,

[00:24:50] but it's under 500 bucks and that does the job. So there are lots of things, pavers that slope towards the house and in periods of heavy rainfall, it diverts the rain in towards the house. You want to change that up, tilt it the other way. And sometimes it does involve paving, but most of the time it's clever little hacks that just get garden beds away from houses or make sure you're routing your dripping hot water service or your AC unit into a pot plant.

[00:25:19] Yeah, that's two small bug beds of mine and that's when people come in and do landscaping or hardscaping around a property and they have the pavers either sitting too high, so the ground levels are too high against the property or they're actually not draining the water away from the property. It's like it wouldn't have taken much just to think about that and do a proper job and get it slanting the right way and getting the water away. And I'm always laughing at myself because when I'm videoing a property,

[00:25:49] I get super excited when there's been a really well executed pathway down the side of the house and it's slanting the right way and it has additional drainage and I'm getting really excited by it. But it means I know that it's not going to be an item that comes up on the building and pest. So winning. But these things can actually be a big thing. We're actually talking about things that are small things right now, but that water up against the house can actually be a big thing. And we've had that before with properties, which we've actually still proceeded with.

[00:26:17] We were aware of the issue before we entered negotiations, but then we also renegotiated the price because the water that was sitting around the base of the property was impacting the property. It was at a stage where it could be rectified and there would be no damage to the property. But if left, it could have resulted in a whole wall at the back of the house needing to be rebricked. So that didn't cost us anything because we renegotiated the price. We got it all back from the vendor.

[00:26:44] But the fix for that particular property was $9,000. And so it really is a case-by-case scenario. So with this one, we're not saying it's definitely a non-event. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. And it is something you need to be aware of. Yeah, absolutely. Like once the damage is done, once things have set in, that can change the game for us. One of the things that really annoys me, because it's relatively cheap in the scheme of things, and when vendors don't see to it, it can cause big, expensive problems.

[00:27:14] That's getting gutters cleared. Yeah. All you need is, you know, a couple of winters worth of leaves blocking a gutter and then all the water's just dribbling down the side of the house. And before you know it, you've got timber rot. You've got, you know, genuine risks with, you know, pest infestation. That's just annoying because you and I know how much it costs to get a gutter guy to come out and clear gutters. And I often laugh at myself when I'm doing videos. Have you become a little bit of a tree expert? So I've become a little bit of a tree expert.

[00:27:43] These ones have invasive root systems. These ones have water. Plant it too close to the house. Yeah. Yeah. I've always, I mean, one of the big things that come up a lot for us is recommending clients remove trees. And one of the trees that are just so common, they're small trees at the beginning until they get too big, but they're the yuckers. Yeah. I was just about to say yuckers. Yeah. They're just such a popular thing in the early 2000s.

[00:28:12] And they're very difficult to contain once they grow roots and they can be quite invasive and affect foundations on houses. So we always tell clients to get rid of those. The amount of referrals we've made to arborist to get rid of yuckers. I love it. Yeah. I think the only good spot for a yucca is in a giant pot. I think the tip. The tip's actually the only answer. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a few other things that come up often.

[00:28:41] Cracked pathways is one that comes up a lot and they'll talk about it being a safety risk because somebody can trip on it. Yeah. Well, we know about cracked pathways when we inspect a property. The things that I really value in a building and pest inspection are the things that I can't spot. And every now and then there'll be something I've walked past and the builder says, no, no, no. If left, like a yucca, for example, if you leave that, it could become problematic.

[00:29:09] But cracked pathways, we factor that in. You don't want a tripping hazard, especially if it's going to be a rental property. That's just, you know, another layer of exposure to the vendor. But we can get those things fixed. We just scope it in. Yeah. And on that same vein, you know, when we've got the old orange and blonde brick 60s houses and they've usually got that big concrete three steps up to the. The big patio. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:38] And quite often the concrete steps have pulled away a little bit from the house. And so that often comes up. But if you ask the building and pest inspector, what do I need to do about it? They'll often say nothing. So unless it's dangerous. How many lives do you say? Yeah. It depends on like how qualified Nonno was when he laid them in 1960. I've had one that needed repair because it was dangerous, but the rest of them were so solid.

[00:30:08] And it's just moved. So there is a slant on them, but they are so stable. It's not funny. And they just don't need to be touched. Yeah. It's impressive when you ask the builder off the record to go through these things that we're talking about. And the answer is often, well, it's in context. It's not completely different to the report, but they're on the hook with their report. And like you said, templated answers pop up.

[00:30:32] Something that does come up a lot, especially with these old 50s and 60s houses is asbestos. Yeah. And I never, ever shrug my shoulders at asbestos. I take it very, very seriously. But I don't know about you. We haven't chatted about asbestos. But where I can forgive it is when it's in the eaves and it's painted. Because who's going to get up there and scratch the eaves or agitate them? I mean, if you're doing a renovation, different story. I did.

[00:31:05] Sanding. And then I went, oh my gosh, I'm pretty sure this is asbestos. And it was. So I immediately stopped sanding. But yeah, I accidentally sanded asbestos eaves. Oh, wow. I know. I know. And it's something that people need to bear in mind. You know, back in those days, asbestos was a super product. People thought it was fantastic. It had a lot of good properties. We didn't know that it was a carcinogen.

[00:31:31] These days, though, if you've got one of those little dodgy sheds that was built in the 60s out in the backyard and it's not painted and it's still got the, you know, the James Hardy print on the back and you can see it's got that grey stippled kind of look. You can't have that sitting there. You can't have kids, you know, drawing on it with chalk or licking it or whatever kids do. You shouldn't have exposed asbestos anywhere, but it shouldn't be within the reach of children either.

[00:31:59] So building and pest inspectors aren't supposed to comment on whether or not something is asbestos. However, they may give a caution that they think or believe there may be asbestos present and they'll probably give an off the record answer as to where they think the asbestos is in the property and there's some common areas where it comes up. The old flues in the fireplaces, if they've been replaced quite often, they'll discard the

[00:32:28] flue, which will be about 20 or 30 centimetres long. It's almost the size of a large plumbing pipe and they'll often discard it and leave it in the roof space. If it's not disturbed and it hasn't been broken, it's a non-event. You could just leave it there forever and a day and it's fine. The issue is when it becomes damaged in some way. The other areas that it comes up, and this is one that not many people know and it's a

[00:32:56] bit of a dangerous one and it's under lino in the flooring in the kitchen. So you've got to be careful with that one because a lot of people will DIY lifting lino up and not realise that there's asbestos there. But the biggest one we see is in the eve linings. And I'm like you, Kate, if it's not disturbed and there's no holes in it, I'm not concerned by it. But if it is disturbed or it's sagging and it needs to be refixed to the house, then

[00:33:25] that's a little bit more of a concern because to do that, it becomes a little bit invasive and it can become disturbed. And I think something that we need to give our listeners to give them a little bit of comfort if they're sitting in a house that has asbestos or whatever, is these days asbestos treating professionals are more abundant. It used to cost an absolute bomb. I remember 30 years ago, 20 years ago, it was very expensive to find someone who can remove it all. And they do have to dress up.

[00:33:54] They do have to cover things. These days they can do it at a much better price. So it's not a big fat no for me if there's asbestos that needs to be removed. Well, to give you an idea, my parents had an asbestos house. The whole house was asbestos minus the roof. And they had it knocked down to rebuild. This was their holiday house that they've knocked down to rebuild and live in for the rest of their days. And it cost them, and they're in New South Wales, it cost them $20,000.

[00:34:23] They had quotes between $20,000 and $25,000. They went with a contractor that was $22,000 or something like that. And that was to remove the asbestos of the entire house. So that just gives people a bit of an idea of, you know, obviously the smaller the scale, the less it's going to cost. Well, do you know what's a big surprise to a lot of people just talking about asbestos? When you get those brick clad old houses, like with the little bricks, and when you get up

[00:34:51] clad, you go, oh yeah, these are just sheets of lookalike bricks. Yes. That's asbestos. Yes, you're right. There's quite a few of them in Kingsville. There's a few that have been clad with, well, I've come across them in Kingsville, a few of them over the years. And I mean, there's a lot of period homes in Kingsville, but they're the little brick ones. Or they were actually a weatherboard, but then they've put this cladding over the top to make it look like faux bricks.

[00:35:18] And they're little thin, like you said, the cladding, but it is actually asbestos. Yeah, I've seen a few around Sunshine and Surrounds. Yeah, the old-fashioned, you know, Edwardian Victorian houses that someone in the 60s and 70s decided would look cooler with brick. So, we've covered a lot of ground in regards to common things that come up and we've spoken about. We're not concerned by them, but there are some things that we are concerned by.

[00:35:47] Let's dive into that and have a little bit of a chat about that. Structural issues. And often you'll see in the building and pest inspection report, we recommend you speak with a structural engineer. Sometimes that's just a templated commentary and it's not required to go and get an engineer, but other times it is. And that's when the conversation with the builder is so important because a structural issue can

[00:36:14] be represented by tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. And if it's, you know, a deep-seated structural issue, do you really want to be band-aiding it? You know, it might mean that to get it completely right, you have to pull the house apart. That's not something that I ever want to go near. Yeah, we're actually completing due diligence on a potential acquisition, which will probably be a no-go now. We found that there's movement in the slab and they've actually had a company out to put

[00:36:42] resin injections in to deal with the slab and get it level again. And that concerns me because slab movement can be a very significant issue with hundreds of thousand dollars of rectification. And so that's one that we'll probably sidestep. Even if it has been fixed, it makes me nervous. Yeah, fair call. Brick subsidence is a big one for me.

[00:37:09] I remember checking out a house in Williamstown's rifle range that's really near the coast. And, you know, sometimes that's the thing about waterways and creeks and beaches. If you get really close, you can have silty soil and then you're dealing with movement. Now, if the foundations aren't right, if the piers aren't deep enough or the slab wasn't done properly, you can have a house on a lane. That's a big no for me because dealing with subsidence, like you said, you're dealing with resin injections and structural engineers.

[00:37:38] I've seen apartment blocks facing this and the rebuild or the fix has been, you know, $300,000 or $400,000. It's a really expensive issue if you've got significant subsidence issues. Now, there's one location where we expect to see this and if we don't see it, we know that it's just been fixed and that it will reappear in a year or two. And that suburb is Elwood. Yes. What do they say about Elwood properties? If you can't see daylight through the brickwork, you're not in Elwood.

[00:38:08] Yeah, it's built on those canals and the foundations are very, very different to other parts of Melbourne and you've got a lot of Art Deco era properties, which, you know, they end up showing their true signs. If they haven't been tampered with, you will see movement cracking. And yeah, I'm very, very careful about Elwood, aside from the fact that there's a lot of special building overlays there.

[00:38:32] It's a beautiful segue into the next big hot ticket item that causes us a little bit of concern and that is drainage issues on a site. It can be benign and it can be easily overcome, but if it's a significant issue, it's often a walkaway, it's often a deal breaker. Yeah, I completely agree. You know, drainage can be solved with, you know, a great plumber and a good solution and

[00:39:02] a couple of days work. But sometimes the foundations weren't right. When I say the foundations are building blocks and there's the site prep itself. And if you're dealing with old issues or expensive issues, it's easier to walk away. Yeah. And there's always a telltale signs of that and that's dampness in the subfloor. You might see mould growing under there or you see mud under there when you've had a week

[00:39:29] of really dry weather and you've got mud under the subfloor, then you know that there's a bigger issue that needs to be looked at. Yeah, absolutely. And the last big one, this one's enough. This one scares everybody. Yeah, it does. If there's active termites, I'm pretty nervous about that. I've not gone forward. Actually, I tell a lie. We had a house in, oh gosh, I'm thinking down the surf coast a long time ago and they

[00:39:57] detected termites in the planters along the side boundary of the property, but they weren't up against the house and active termites. And so that was a really interesting one for the client to deal with. I got them to speak at length with the building pest inspector and they opted to get a pest treatment done because the house was not impacted, but they know that they'll be up for regular treatments for that property because it was in a termite prone area.

[00:40:26] A lot of Melbourne is actually termite prone too. And that can sound quite scary when you're used to it. I mean, a lot of homes in Frankston have had termite damage in the past. When I say a lot of homes, it's, you know, one in say 500 homes, but that's more than we see in other locations. But there are a lot of locations similar to that where it's quite prevalent. I remember going to an auction.

[00:40:54] I was on a property in Kingsville, a little single fronted brick house, and we had a building in Pesta and we found that it had significant and substantial termite damage under the sub floor and through the actual framework of the property. And so we pulled out and we didn't proceed with that property, but I went to auction just to see what happened. And there were seven bidders on the property.

[00:41:20] Every single one of them was a first home buyer and nobody had had a building and pest report done. So that's a significant find. The house did need to be renovated and that was our plan to renovate it. So once those walls get opened up and they start those renovations, they will find the termite damage and it's a significant issue. And this is why we get the building and pest reports. That's a $40,000 to $60,000 problem.

[00:41:46] Yeah, that'd be very upsetting, especially for a first home buyer who's using their own capital. What a mess. Well, I want to have a chat about some of the things that come up in the report that need, that generally need further specialization. So in other words, a different kind of inspector. We've chatted a lot about structural issues, you know, co-joined buildings, blocks of units or houses with significant structural problems. And that constitutes a structural engineer and they're not cheap.

[00:42:14] You won't get out of an initial report from one of them for anything under $1,500. Yeah. It's hard to get them as well because their insurance doesn't cover them for pre-inspection reports. And so we've actually had to work around that by getting the vendor to engage the engineer whilst we're still under contract with them. And we've paid for the report or we've gone halves with the vendor with the report, but

[00:42:41] we've had to get the vendor to engage the engineer because the engineers aren't covered for a pre-inspection report. So that one was interesting to work around. The other specialists that we may get in from time to time are investigative plumbers where they're putting cameras down pipe works so that we can have a look for cracked pipes under

[00:43:08] the ground because that can be a very costly fix as well. If trees have cracked the pipes, particularly if they're the old terracotta style pipes, you know, one length of that down the side of a property can be a $20,000 fix. So it can be quite serious if it's suspected that there is pipework underground that has been cracked. Yeah. No, they can be worth their weight in gold when you know that there's something going on and you're not quite sure what it is.

[00:43:35] There's obviously electricians, you know, they can be great for determining not just legal requirements, minimum standards, but whether the electrical circuitry has been set up properly. You know, you've got ovens that are plugged into lines that they shouldn't be and then you're blowing switches all the time. There's so many different things that I've seen come up in electrical inspections over the years, not just about safety. Yeah. Particularly in the northern and western suburbs where it's quite common to have... Creative?

[00:44:05] Yes. Creative is the word for it, where we have cultures who live a lot of their life with families out the backyard in a second dwelling. So when they've converted a garage into a second kitchen and, you know, and canning room and, you know, food processing room for those that have got the big gardens in the backyard. I'm thinking like Thomastown, for example, you know, $6,000 worth of electrical rectification

[00:44:33] because a lot of that's been DIY and it's not compliant and it's dangerous. So it has to all come down or be rewired completely. So true. Any other specialists that you've ever had in, Kate? Yeah, pools. Pool specialists and also fence compliance because pool compliance is a massive headache for a lot of people. And we, as a rule, don't buy anything with a pool or a spa if it's for an investor because

[00:45:00] it's just not an exposure that I want for them and it's a lot of compliance. And the legislation keeps changing as well. So you've got to stay on top of it. Is there any, is there a time, Kate, where you wouldn't get a building in pest? That's such a good question. You want to say if it's a brand new house that you don't need one, but I disagree.

[00:45:23] I've had that many situations where there have been some significant defects that, you know, myself or a new buyer might not pick up, but they should be seen to. Building code is a big one. And I actually think for the cost of the inspector and the magnitude of the spend, no matter what era the property, we shouldn't let that one go.

[00:45:49] Maybe in a block of apartments where it's really well kept and it's reasonably young and you've got an active owner's corporation, you'd like to think that any issue that affects one property would affect the other in that same block. But I just don't like to fly that blind. I actually prefer to know. Yeah, I'm with you. If it's a newer property, we still get a building in pest. And I know that a lot of people skip on them if they think the property looks good or if it's been freshly renovated.

[00:46:17] But we will press forward with the building in pest irrespective. The only time that we won't go ahead with a building in pest report is when the client has purchased a knockdown. If they're doing a knockdown rebuild or if they're doing a development site and that is imminent, they're doing it, their plans are to move on that straight away, then there's no point in getting a building in pest. We know the house is going to be knocked down in 12 months. We don't really care what's wrong with it between now and then. Yeah, no, really great point.

[00:46:47] I've got one last question for you. And that is about who provides the building in pest inspection report? Because we've just chatted about the builders that we like to work with and, you know, the off-the-record conversations that we can have and the trust that we've got in them and all of the things that they can do for us. But what happens when the vendor hands you a report? It's a great question and it's so topical right now with the Victorian legislative changes

[00:47:13] that are being proposed where they're mandating that a vendor must provide a building in pest report and they're doing this to help resolve the costs of homebuyers trying to enter the market. And I have a bit of a giggle about this because, I mean, what would help people get into the property market is if they reduce the stamp duty for them and they didn't have that massive hurdle but what they're doing is focusing on a $600 report and at the end of the day, my

[00:47:40] advice to buyers is not to rely on a vendor supplied report. I definitely wouldn't. The only time that I would is if I knew the building and pest inspector. I've seen their work before. I've read their reports and I know that they're really good inspectors but I just know of so many situations, Kate, where vendors have got a report that has not been favourable and so

[00:48:07] they've shopped around and got other reports until they've found a favourable one. There's a few building and pest inspectors on Instagram that are highlighting this so well where they've been engaged by a client who's been given a vendor report that has revealed absolutely no issues and then they've gone through the property. One of them the other day was showing a $50,000 or an $80,000 roof replacement that was undeclared in the original vendor report.

[00:48:33] And so my advice is for buyers is not to rely on a vendor report. I think it's helpful because you can have a look at it and see if there are any red flags but I wouldn't rely on it to make my ultimate decision. What about you? I'm exactly the same. I'd use it as a first pass filter. If I get that independent report and there's a showstopper in it, great. I've saved myself $700. But if I get that report and it's glowing, I'm definitely not relying on it. And as a buyer's agent, same as you.

[00:49:03] If I know the builder, I know their work and I know I can have a conversation with them because that off-record conversation, it gives you great context. Sometimes I can say to the builder, would you buy this for your daughter? Good question. So yeah, to your point, I don't rely on them at all unless it's someone that I've used, that I rate, who can have a conversation with me. Wow, we've covered a lot of ground today. I actually really love Building Impress reports.

[00:49:30] Our team reads every single one that we get and we summarise them for our client to make them easier to understand and we often spend an hour on the phone with clients just walking them through and it's something that I'm really excited about for some strange reason. I don't know what it is. It's great. So yeah, it's something that I get quite excited about but I know how daunting it can be for buyers, particularly when they haven't read as many reports as you and I have.

[00:49:56] So hopefully today has lessened that burden just a little bit and given the listeners a little way to navigate what matters and how to navigate this whole process of building and pest. Yeah, I hope so too. We could talk about so many other elements of building and pest inspection reports. We'll save that for another day. Yeah. So good to see you. Thanks, Kate. We'll see you on our next episode.

[00:50:24] Thank you for joining us on today's episode of the Melbourne Property Hour. We hope you've enjoyed the show and we look forward to you joining us next time. I have sampled this joke and it's a good one. So you must laugh, okay? Okay. Because other people have approved it. All right. Now let me remember it. Okay.

[00:50:50] So what did the cupcake say to the icing? No. A muffin without you. I love it. That is good. It's cute. Yeah. Jame, you'll like that. Yeah. Yeah.